Curse

Glasswalker · Jun 24, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

You are correct in guessing that I haven't run up against this build, but I truly look forward to it. Even if I can't catch the Necro in between death and resurrection (and it feels as though my odds ought to be good since they are alternating between 2 necros), if I can get my necro up there as quickly as possible and use Verata's Aura while they are still near the enemy's team -- I like my odds.

True, their counter is just to bring VA themselves, and they might. My N/R would then try to interupt them in casting it, since I know just when it's going to happen. A N/Me might load echo, and when the other team uses VA, echo it back at them. That would thow them for a loop. A W/N might just decide to take the punishment from the Bone*s, and concentrate on killing the monk.

Either way, your team has had time to set up, a couple of Necros have a hefty death penalty, and a Monk is fresh out of Energy. Granted, that is a lot of Bone*s, but who's side they are now on is questionable, as well as how much effect they will have in the end. Has your Ranger teammate set up Edge of Extinction? Have your Elementalists AoE'd them to death? Has the charging W/N survived thier onslaught and taken the fight to the monk?

^-- That is what will decide the battle.

Merarite · Jun 24, 2005, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Nice last post there. The build isnt a cheat its just really effective if you are not prepared to counter it.

Mayar third Keeper · Jun 24, 2005, 05:59 AM // 05:59

I cant believe u think this is a regular tactic.
But i stay tuned and watch ur success in beating them....

Oh good luck on targeting the Necro between the many bonefiends

grimmolly · Jun 24, 2005, 05:48 PM // 17:48

As I said, I've played as one of these teams and they're very much beatable. You need to get a hard target to charge the fiends and take their attacks while the healers all heal that person and cast seed. From there, it's easy to beat them by killing the fiends, rezzers, and army leaders. Killing the suicide necros only helps the enemy.

Honestly, people need to stop calling nerf if they aren't creative enough to think about how simple some things are to counter.

Kishin · Jun 24, 2005, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayar third Keeper

I cant believe u think this is a regular tactic.
But i stay tuned and watch ur success in beating them....

Oh good luck on targeting the Necro between the many bonefiends

It's definitely in the rotation of common builds. Lulu refined it awhile back and held the HoH with it, and I think that's where a lot of people picked up on it.

Its not an exploit. Its just someone killing themselves very quickly with Blood is Power and being rezzed just as quickly, only to do it again.

I eagerly await the cries of "Nerf, Nerf!" that will be brought to bear because people don't want to think of a way to counter this.

Yukito Kunisaki · Jun 24, 2005, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Hmm, my w/n has blood ritual... One can just spam this with a vampiric etc. and feed teammate corpses eh?

Dred Skullord · Jun 24, 2005, 06:47 PM // 18:47

Just kill the necro caster and the bone fiends will attack everything, including theire own team.

Mayar third Keeper · Jun 24, 2005, 08:01 PM // 20:01

The point why i think this is an exploit is not if it is beatable or not but there are a few things that should prevent necros from getting such a great army.
First there are the slow degen wich force u to either lose ur minions or take more skills to heal them
Second 25 Energy is very much and normaly ur regen isnt so good to cast an army withing seconds.
Normaly Minions could be made out of 16 corpse (8vs8). Now u spoil 16 minions out of 1 corpse.

I could be wrong but this sounds like an exploit to me. Just imagine a 8Vs8Vs8 map. If u manage to kill the first team u have all the time in the world to get a bulk of minions. Neither Warrior Monk teams nor Ele spike Teams grow stronger and stronger over time.

Forscience · Jun 24, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

It isnt an exploit, just because it appears as though A-net has set up mechanics to make this strat difficult doesnt mean that overcoming those obstacles is cheating. There isnt anything unfair about this strat, or anything in GW for that manner since anyone can duplicate the tech.

Dont ask me to follow the "Spirit of the Law" in a videogame. The literal interpretation of the rules is what makes the game fun.

Kishin · Jun 24, 2005, 08:32 PM // 20:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayar third Keeper

The point why i think this is an exploit is not if it is beatable or not but there are a few things that should prevent necros from getting such a great army.
First there are the slow degen wich force u to either lose ur minions or take more skills to heal them
Second 25 Energy is very much and normaly ur regen isnt so good to cast an army withing seconds.
Normaly Minions could be made out of 16 corpse (8vs8). Now u spoil 16 minions out of 1 corpse.

I could be wrong but this sounds like an exploit to me. Just imagine a 8Vs8Vs8 map. If u manage to kill the first team u have all the time in the world to get a bulk of minions. Neither Warrior Monk teams nor Ele spike Teams grow stronger and stronger over time.

Every time someone is dying, the Necro is getting energy back from Soul Reaping. Furthermore, the other guy is probably stacking Blood is Power on the animating necro, so he's got energy regen 5 on top of his Soul Reaping. There's also to be likely more than one rezzer, and the guy sacrificing himself to be a corpse is definitely dying at a rate so as to pay back the cost of animating his corpse via Soul Reaping. Lastly, the corpse fodder is not ending up with a massive DP and thereby being eliminated from the GvG match because he's being rezzed with Vengeance, and deaths while enchanted with Vengeance incur no DP.

Again, its not an exploit. You're just not thinking about the mechanics behind and are instead screaming "Nerf! Nerf!" at what you don't understand rather than trying to analyze and comprehend it.

Darc.Syde · Jun 24, 2005, 08:34 PM // 20:34

we tried this strategy before, in tombs, 6 way.

the minion AI is too easily exploitable...

Quote:

bone fiend Ai is easily exploitable.

with a warrior, draw all of their attacks, and focus heals on that warrior while your team AoE's the crap out of everything.

ya, i explained how to counter it with a well rounded team...

if you're going in with 5air/3mo team, you lost becuase your build isnt rounded enough to counter.

Aernok · Jun 24, 2005, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Not true.

If you have a protection monk throw a life bond up on everyone. Have the 2 healers alternate seeds every 15 seconds while the prot monk runs in first. Have the party stand right next to the prot monk. The bone fiends become nothing but free heals.

If you're running an anti-enchantment build then chances are you have a ranger with nature's renewal. Throw up Edge of Extinction. Wait for some of the fiends to degen enough health then kill them. Only 1 or 2 and you'll cause a chain reaction to the entire army.

Mayar third Keeper · Jun 24, 2005, 09:12 PM // 21:12

Quote:

Again, its not an exploit. You're just not thinking about the mechanics behind and are instead screaming "Nerf! Nerf!" at what you don't understand rather than trying to analyze and comprehend it.

Stop blaming me. I never said "Nerf" nor i just here to scream.

I think it is an exploit because of the endless minions. Others say it isnt. Thats called discussion.

So Ill try it myself as soon as i can.

edit: Hehe i thought of this spirit, too but forgot the chain reaktion. Yes the more the faster they die

Thurston Killgore · Jun 30, 2005, 08:02 AM // 08:02

I have been in one of these groups....and can tell you its very effective and beatable; but it is also unbeatable with a simple tactic and especially if your using V.A. to take them from me...or if I die and get rezz'd-(i might let u know the secret but if u faced Flesh Golems u might know then)....but u can check this out......after we beat a team we decide to summon more Bone Fiends..but they apparently got stuck with each other later on when korea and their aeromancers split into 2 teams from the 8....

PieXags · Jun 30, 2005, 08:15 AM // 08:15

There's a bad word in that screenshot.

rii · Jun 30, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

Wouldnt a zealot boon channeler rip the hell out of a minion build?
about 112hps, 37dps aoe, and the scum are too useless to remove enchantments etc, so just run in face first with maybe some rof from a prot support if if gets bad. hack through them, and eventually youll win. then kill the ressers once your in shutdown range with some mesmers......

__Aria__ · Jun 30, 2005, 03:06 PM // 15:06

*What I think*

first of all this isnt an exploit, this is a team build that works nice IMO and its very fun, but its not hard to counter, holy dmg hurts a lot (really a lot) minions also if u dont have any skill that turns minions on ur side, just kill the summoner, all minion will become masterless, tho the point of this build is that all this mass body blocks foes and does great dmg cos a team of 28 ppl does great dmg indeed, aoe owns em easy but still aoes arent easy to cast when u get dmg that fast.

JimTheMighty · Jun 30, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

I don't understand why the people running the fiends dont just drop down a Fertile Season and laugh at aoe as they spam Blood of the Master. I further don't understand how protection can help when they can easily just put Rend Enchantments on some of their necros and then kill their target before more enchantments come up. Even with Fertile Season, 30 level 18 bone fiends backed up by barb is unstoppable unless there is healing seed on the target, and I know few parties who can cast more than 3 seeds in a relevant timeframe (keep in mind that after rend enchantments the necromancers can use single enchantment removal to keep seed off).

Also, killing one of the summoning necros, besides being quite a feat with their 400 point quarter second self heal and with Fertile Season, will only unbind 10 fiends, and thats probably only equivalent to turning a sixth of their army. Not to mention that at least some of their necros probably are running mass rebinding spells, if only to combat the ones their opponents will quite possibly be brining in to battle.

Jia Xu · Jun 30, 2005, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayar third Keeper

Stop blaming me. I never said "Nerf" nor i just here to scream.

I think it is an exploit because of the endless minions. Others say it isnt. Thats called discussion.

So Ill try it myself as soon as i can.

I'm sorry, but you can't debate what an exploit is. An exploit is a FLAW in the game that allows people to do stuff that the game designers did not intend, such as walking on mountains because the wrong textures have been put there, or being able to summon out of a corpse twice. These examples were not intended by the designers to be possible.

You are crying exploit because of endless minions? there aren't that many that it makes them hard to kill. a judges insight on your weapon guys will rip them apart, and edge of extinction makes it even better. Sure, it kicks the crap out of an air ele build, becuase an air ele build, while being very powerful in terms of offense, has sod all defense, and taste of death/dark bond nerfs an air team's damage output.

People should stop going with builds that focus on one good aspect of the game - that will get you past a couple of builds, sure, but if you come up against a guild who know what they are doing they will counter you. Every themed build has a far more obvious counter than a simple 3Mo / 2W / 3Spellcast where everyone in the team knows what they are doing.

sorry for the rant, but so many of the comments in this thread were posted by people who didn't think about what they were saying before they said it.

younggun87 · Jun 30, 2005, 05:16 PM // 17:16

I completely agree with the above reply.
Exploit is a bug. a flaw which people "EXPLOIT" in an unfair advantage.

Crying out "NERF NERF!" isnt at all fair to the people who have come up with that very build we are talking about at the moment. Now thats what I call EXPLOIT, exploit of the NERFS.